15 ml + 25 ml kills at gp 1

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by NJR 100, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,577
    Location:
    Skewen
    Club:
    Avon Hawks, Tondu, Oaktree
    Cant say i heard too many complaints about the mini kills at gp1?

    So, those that shot the Gp, did you find the 15mm + 25mm kills suited the course.
    Were there too many. Was it enough?

    I cant make up my mind about the 15 m kills, but i really liked the spread distance wise on the 8 x 25 ml kill targets.
    I liked the way the course did not seem too long at all overall and that most certainly is due to 10 x mini kills. Lets face it in that wind distance was not needed.

    I dont think i will whitness Mr.Calpin missing a 22 yard target again this year? There is one 25ml hole with a famous scalp to talk about though!
     
  2. skeet_200

    skeet_200 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Peterborough
    I agree. I think that the inclusion of 8 (or more) reducers is a major improvement to GP courses and that the team at Harriers put together a superb course which made the most of the new format.

    A spread of tricky targets at all ranges helps to "rebalance" the shoot, to make it more of an all round test of shooting technique and understanding of trajectory. In contrast, some previous GPs have felt like a one-dimensional slog of long range wind judging and scope rangefinding - both of which can be a bit of a lottery at 50 yards plus.
     
  3. mikewills8904

    mikewills8904 walthers last the course

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    919
    Location:
    porttalbot
    Club:
    oaktree ftc and tondu ftc
    15mm and 25 mm kills

    i didnt mind them wert to far not realy hard shots. i misssed the last 15mm kill gave it edge and went straight
     
  4. chrispro97

    chrispro97 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Location:
    atherstone
    Club:
    purley chase ftc
    got the lot of them found them all a good ranges,nice to them all used and not on the limits set from 9 to 35 on 25mm and the 15mm at about 15 to 20 yards :):)
     
  5. CoolId

    CoolId New Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    129
    Excellent course, good variety of ranges and sizes and most importantly no stupid impossible targets. It gets my vote

    Regards

    Dave
     
  6. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,118
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    cleared them... it was nice to hear (in a way) that some had missed for wind, and they had me twitching a bit as well... that said a lot of misses seemed to be range issues, being high and low... but i still maintain they provide more of a challenge than a 25mm when edge would see 90% of people hit even with a breeze... the course seemed very well balanced I thought...
     
  7. Mr P

    Mr P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,028
    Location:
    Sunny Ilkeston
    Club:
    Castle
    I Thought the course was very good however there was a lot of whinges at the Tawd Vale shoot last year with quite a few people saying there was too many reducers, my own view is the reducers should be optional quite like the idea of fixed combined yardage for standers and Kneelers though i would be quite happy to see 25mm kneelers at ground level IE in line with the shooter.This is the first season and a good bench mark has been set all credit to Tony,Kev and the lads very well ran GP a lot of effort and around 160 relatively happy customers. I would like to suggest that the BFTA buys a set of pellet scales as we all know that pellets can vary by the best part of a grain i think 3 lads where disqualified for being over the limit rules are rules but i do not beleive this was intentional and yes i know it is the same for everyone but i know of people going through the chrono at over 100FPS under the limit. I am only suggesting the scales for anyone who may think they have got a pellet issue.
     
  8. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,118
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    experiments i've done with my own gun seem to suggest they leave the muzzle at the same speed within quite a varation say from 7.6-8 of the same pellet type... indeed mozzies and exacts seem very close, with barely any change. H's gun is set for exacts and runs at 784 with mozzies.

    My change with other guns though, and of course, I don't always run 7.9, most mozzies i shoot are between 7.7 and 7.9 by my scales. Does raise an interesting point though... and I know stated manufacturers weights have been rounded up to the nearest decimal when converted from grams to grains. Think mozzies are something like 7.85 when converted.

    It's the old problem of what variation in the measuring device is possible against what is accepted... i'd hate to think what a cheap set of scales in a field combined with the chrono's error could provide in reality. Perhaps the BFTA buffer needs to be bigger to accomodate it? I did some playing in chairgun last night, and winding up H's walther from 784 to 815 with mozzies gives her barely one less click at 55, and shaves 1/2" off a 20mph broadside wind taking 6.5" of wind at 55...

    Think the rise in temp may have been the reason... the car said 14 degrees when we arrived late morning, James W had said he saw 6 on his car on arrival in the morning, I saw 32 on the scope (albeit in the sun) in the afternoon. H's gun seemed to have gained 10-15 over another chrono tested a few weeks back, and 1&1/4 MOA of rise... which is way more than chairgun indicates, but in the same direction. Certainly it appears than when we have these sudden changes in heat upwards, there's a few caught out on the chrono... i remember Wales a few years back where it ran into double figures.

    I'm still getting to the bottom of a possible temp shift on the walther, but it needs those hot sunny days to see it... when we're in the wood shoots, it's a lot cooler... the scope is a known factor, but my rig seems to flick up now and then, and has been slowly growing in speed over the past couple of months, albeit by only a few fps.
     
  9. PeteM

    PeteM New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    441
    Location:
    Chagford, Dartmoor, Devon
    impractical in the field

    I think it would be found to be impractical to use pellet scales in the field, from my experience the slightest wind from an open window in the house causes the scales to change wildly, even breathing heavily affects them. I understand the suggestion though. :)
     
  10. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    789
    Location:
    Uxbridge UB8
    Club:
    Bisley
    Simple

    Have a tin of pellets in 8.4 and 7.9 which are used in the test , as a base figure on the crono table.;)
     
  11. PeteM

    PeteM New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    441
    Location:
    Chagford, Dartmoor, Devon
    Component WEAR

    Perhaps the barrel is running in.
    I'm having a similar experience & the only thing I can think of is slight barrel wear.
    I have put thousands of pellets(maybe as many as 10 thousand or very close) through mine & clean it regularly.
    It could also be wear in the regulator or the firing valve is another thought.
     
  12. Mr P

    Mr P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,028
    Location:
    Sunny Ilkeston
    Club:
    Castle
    They have used them at the worlds abroad, my concern is i have seen someone go through the BFTA Chrono at 54FPS yes fifty four FPS and then someone gets kicked off the course for being a few FPS over, i am only trying to be logical apparently different muzzle brakes diffusing the air in different ways can cause a problem if someone has travelled a fair distance at considerable cost it is very painful and embaresing i doubt that any of them had intentionally ran there gun over.
     
  13. PeteM

    PeteM New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    441
    Location:
    Chagford, Dartmoor, Devon
    good

    I thought the course was well balanced, didn't mind the amount of 25mm reducers even though I missed a couple due to the wind & probably poor shooting on my part.

    Didn't mind the the 15mm reducers either, I did miss one because of a dialling issue, target was
    in-between dialling numbers on my range card, I made a choice which was wrong and consequently the pellet went slightly high at 12 o'clock.

    Personally I think the changes are good. :D
     
  14. PeteM

    PeteM New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    441
    Location:
    Chagford, Dartmoor, Devon
    So is that a problem with the BFTA chrono or with the gun in question or the muzzle brake diffusing effect...:confused: :eek:
     
  15. neilL

    neilL New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    567
    Location:
    Oxford
    Club:
    NOFTC CRPC
    First timer view

    Well this is my first season and obviously I have no experience of the course builds from previous years but I really enjoyed the afternoon despite not having a clue on many targets as to which way or how hard the wind was blowing. I didn't have a problem with the 15mms (despite not being sure of my aim points whilst using an old ProT and _still_ waiting for AA to sort out the regulator on the EV2 .. grrr). The joy of seeing a long one fall over (and seeing the pellet arcing in and down from the left) countered the consternation of seeing a pellet go straight on despite leaves/branches swaying, wind on the face, windicator all saying it should have taken at least some windage, even had one go the opposite way so must have pulled that! I haven't shot in such conditions before so good experience although I am not sure I learned how to do better for the next time.

    The 25mms were a mixed bunch but as with the 40mms some times the hardest thing was seeing which bunch of grey splats it landed in - the ones on the left or the ones on the right ... at least there is a feeling of fellowship joining in the grey. :)
     
  16. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,118
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Not having it in direct sunlight should reduce the problem of Index of Refraction caused by a blast... H's rifle was problematic to read, but it has no brake or anything beyond a tube. The IOR problem is emphasised by strong uni-directional light... (collimated to be precise)

    Perhaps the muzzles need to be further back. From experiments down the club, with FAC gear, the higher the blast, the more the chrono has to go down range. When we were up to around 400 ft-lb we needed to be about 6ft away.

    I don't think it's just the BFTA chrono, all seem to do it. I can't get a reading off a crombo on H's walther at all. I've seen some pepper pots give error'd readings. I tend to think that when you get a bad reading though it's way off rather than a smidge off. Obviously that's not a scientific fact, just opinion.

    I've got a CED M2 with IR sensors, which should prevent some of the sunlight issues, but the fundamental is that pressure waves can distort the air enought that when any wave length of light passes through the waves they can make the chrono see them as an object and thus give a false reading. This is why you can see a higher MV a foot or so out over a measurement at the muzzle, because they have dispersed by then. But with higher powers or perhaps different muzzles, i suppose it's entirely possible these waves could travel further. I guess the trick becomes then in having a chrono that can't be shot...

    No matter though, what error, tolerance or buffer or chrono used, there will always be an error possibility, and statistics say that it could mean someone is over or under. The problem is that we're trying to measure tiny things at high speeds, and technology is being pushed to acheive that.

    If people know it could be hot, then they should make sure they are well under... and if the chrono is available to test beforehand, then this could reduce the amount of those that fail. I understand perfectly that a day could be ruined, but if it's that important, then do some prep work beforehand to mitigate the possibility. You can only do as much as you can, and so can the BFTA, and nothing is perfect i'm afraid.
     
  17. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,118
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    I'm just going with "it's harrier's..." i might take a bath here... again :D If it's a north or south wind at Harriers I always suffer... wind head on is a weak point for me.

    The bowl at Pontefract was notorious for doing the same, and after a few years I managed to escape almost unscathed, but I would never put money on being able to pull off the same stunt.

    Sywell in the gardens can do the same... if you survive that, then one of the other two areas will have you...
     
  18. mikewills8904

    mikewills8904 walthers last the course

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    919
    Location:
    porttalbot
    Club:
    oaktree ftc and tondu ftc
    bfta chrono

    the bfta chrono will always be a talking point . i went through the chrono at 790 with exacts . i now my domi runs between 777 and 783 ish ,with weighed pellets . i checked my gun after on the zero range and it was 784 ,

    tosh went throght over and was d/q , fair enough if your over but what about some of the velocties i have heard over the past , i heard of one that said 1700 fps last year and i was said that the chrono must be playing up

    i dont know anyone that would knowingly run his gun over the limit,

    perhaps they could have 2 back up combros ,

    like i said i way my pellets and i run my gun at 780 with 8.40 to 8,50 jsbs ,if i put 7.9or 8.1 grain jsbs in if goes up to 790 ish .

    you cannot test any rifle accuratly unless you know the weight of the pellet

    just my views
     
  19. Miss England

    Miss England Mr. Kipling has nothing on me

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Southampton Buccaneers, South Dorset, Parkstone
    I enjoy the feeling when I sink a 15mm kill.... I missed many targets Sunday but one of my best was one of the 15mm kill targets.... cant tell you how happy it made me to make it fall down, although it may have been more luck than judgement!!!

    I have not got much comp experiance but I like the idea of more challenging targets, a target does not have to be long to be tricky..... ;)

    Great course I loved it..... just wish I knew my gun had shifted as I would have enjoyed it even more if I had knocked a few more over..... oh well I am still smiling... on to NEFTA at the weekend..... :D :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  20. mikewills8904

    mikewills8904 walthers last the course

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    919
    Location:
    porttalbot
    Club:
    oaktree ftc and tondu ftc
    keep smiling helen . some days it just dont go the way you want it .

    hope you enjoy the nefta . i cant do this weekend as i have to sort out a stock take

    have a great weekend . see you at tawd vale ,, cakes would be nice :p
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice